EPISODE RELEASED 1st SEPT 2023
WHAT DATA SUPPORTS THE IDEA THAT OUMUAMUA COULD HAVE BEEN SPACE JUNK FROM ANOTHER CIVILISATION? WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT THAT THE GALILEO PROJECT AT HARVARD LOOKS FOR MORE SUCH OBJECTS? WHY IS SCIENCE FINALLY TAKING SERIOUSLY THE UAP PHENOMENON?
Today we’re going to find out about new developments in the SETI discussion (Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence) that has been prompted by the anomalous interstellar object Oumuamua, that passed through the solar system in 2017. Since the cosmologist, sceptic and TV presenter Carl Sagan helped normalise the topic for serious scientific consideration, SETI has been a thriving, if underfunded, scientific endeavour with multiple techniques being used, not just listening for radio signals; but which until recently hasn’t found anything to write home about, despite a few false alarms.
Until the arrival of Oumuamua, today’s guest, Avi Loeb wasn’t really involved in the SETI debate, but his SETI interpretation of the data on this object, and his impeccable reputation as former chair of the astronomy department at Harvard University has brought him into the debate with a bang. He is the Frank B. Baird Jr Professor of Science at Harvard, author of over 700 scientific papers, and receiver of so many awards and accolades I won’t list them there.
Avi is also the author of 4 books, of which we’ll be discussing two today. First his New York Times bestseller ‘Extraterrestrial’ about Oumuamua, and second his new book that’s just out “Interstellar: the search for extra terrestrial life and out future in the stars”.
To add further taboo to this newly invigorated debate, we’ll also be talking about the 2017 NYTimes story on military UFO encounters, which revealed that the US Government had not only been secretly studying the UFO Phenomenon, but also covered the extraordinary ‘TicTac’ case around the USS Nimitz aircraft carrier, witnessed by multiple pilots and including radar blip confirmation. All of which has led to Congress passing a new law obliging military witnesses to testify about these incidents and alleged black projects working on this kind of technology, and to the June 2021 report form the Director of National intelligence (see show notes). Having never known this was even a real confirmed phenomena, and knowing Avi has since become involved in the scientific debate on this topic too, this interview was particularly curious.
What we discuss:
00:00 Listening to nature, instead of pretending you know the answer in advance
12:45 6x anomalous data points on interstellar object Oumuamua, Oct 19th 2016
15:45 1. It had an unusual shape; Reflectivity varied by a factor of 10 as it rotated
16:30 2. It came from a special frame of reference: it was at rest and we bumped into it
17:30 3. The object had no tail (so no ice)
17:40 4. It had no carbon based molecules: it wasn’t a comet
19:40 5. It was a smooth object, no jets on the surface
20:40 6. Excess force was pushing it away from the sun but it had no evaporation tail (a sun sail?)
21:00 Another smooth object, Sept 2020 was a nasa booster we jetisoned
21:45 Technological relic VS natural object hypothesis
24:00 Natural origin: Solid hydrogen/nitrogen hypotheses
26:00 2 interstellar objects detected since Oumuamuma: both tougher than any meteor
27.30 Avi’s New book “Interstellar” on SETI, and planning for a highly probable future contact
29:30 Searching the solar system for technological relics, instead of waiting for a phone call
32:00 Our star is younger than most in the galaxy so younger star’s civilisations are probably more advanced
35:30 We have an obligation to go out and explore the universe
36:00 The Galileo Project: Looking out for interstellar objects, in 3 ways
38:30 “You get bitten if you don’t follow the beaten path”
39:15 1. Exploring impact sites on earth to study meteors composition
40:00 2. Finding the next Oumuamua soon enough to get better data
42:45 3. Study of UAP objects via specially broad operation observatories
48:00 Imagining seeding of planets, creating species and creating universes in labs
55:20 Reliance on funding leads to conservatism and ignoring of anomalies
58:00 The LHC failure to find supersymmetry (see show notes below)
01:04:00 When science is like religion: the humbling feeling in the face of the unknown
01:05:00 Advanced societies capable of making life and universes artificially would be like gods
01:06:00 Often when our beliefs are not confirmed experimentally, we say ‘just wait for the data that fits’
01:09:00 “Exploring the frontiers of science is similar to spirituality, because you are exploring the unknown, you have to be modest, because it can be bigger than you”
01:09:45 Stephen Hawkin was worried about transmitting signals in case an ET race was predatory but Avi thinks they’ll be benevolent if they’ve survived
01:12:30 “Science is not zero sum game its an infinite sum game, because basically everyone benefits from knowledge”
References:
Avi Loeb 'Interstellar: The Search for Extraterrestrial Life and Our Future in the Stars' (2023)
Avi Loeb 'Extraterrestrial: The First Sign of Intelligent Life Beyond Earth' (2021)
Frank Drake, physicist, SETI pioneer
Galileo Project @Harvard University
NY Times report on Papua New Guinea expedition
The Brimstone Foundation post-doctural fellowship at the Galileo Project
Office of the Director of National Intelligence Assessment on UAP, June 2021, John L. Ratcliffe
Galileo UAP Harvard Observatory results: first papers
LHC’s failure to find new particles casts doubt on supersymmetry
VICE Magazine, Garry Nolan Experiencers brains and Anomalous materials magazine article
NY Times report on USS Nimitz Tic Tac incident, Dec 2017